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yudsan · 10-18-2008, 01:46 PM

...can someone explain it to me? I am sorry if I sound like a moron, but it was very confusing

Bru · 10-20-2008, 05:37 AM

Neither do I . . . and believe me, I know how you feel. It's a pretty story, but I kind of don't get it. Like, I kind of get it, but then I don't want to be automatically assuming.

Is it because he likes his little sister and wants to keep her forever? Or is it something else? When the little sister or whoever looked up and kissed him, she made me falter there. Or am I reading into this too much? Can someone be direct and clear, and tell me?

mint royale · 10-26-2008, 01:14 PM

I don't really think it's that kind of work you should entirely understand. It's just something to stop your time and to think about about your relationship with others and about yourself. Because in this really short story we can see so much: love, thoughts of two people of each other and themselves, their complicated situation, their ways to find happiness, their communication with outside world and so much more. The little sister here, though she really loves her brother, she dicides it's not going to work anymore, because he's too narcissistic. And so it even becomes an equal battle between two really close minds.

Of course, it's just my thoughts and I wish I knew myself what exactly the author meant. The fact that I'm myself a hopeless fan of BUCK-TICK doesn't help either xD. But I think thats exactly just a thing what would happen of combining their music with Kaori Yuki's creation. The original song "Die" with lyrics written by Atsushi Sakurai is also difficult to understand, but somehow it has a very familiar feeling: struggling and trying to understand who you are. The song itself could be sad, but it has a light and somehow happy feeling, just like the characters in this oneshot manga, who don't seem to be disappointed or sad in the end, especially the brother, who probably was smiling because he started seeing something more in his sister than he used to, something that also delights him. In addition to his, I seem to find here not only this song, but some other songs as well (especially probably "Narcissus") and there's a lot of implications that this manga can be connected with only this band.

Oh, and it was really amusing, because here brother looks like Atsushi Sakurai from later era and the little sister like Atsushi from earlier B-T era, so I guess in a sence it's an AtsushiXAtsushi pairing xDD Sorry about this long babbling that probably didn't help at all xD

kaiakills · 11-01-2008, 09:02 PM

i agree with mint royale. it's one of those stories that you really aren't meant to understand completely. Alot of Kaori Yuki's works are like that, and i think that's one of the things that is most appealing about her.

Bru · 11-02-2008, 04:06 AM

Ahh
I see . . .
Thanks, guys.

nanatotempole · 11-21-2008, 12:00 AM

he dotted her and she loved him for that. but as time progressed, she realized he is a controlling and emotionally abusive man. because they are siblings they are similar, and because he was older he could tell her what to do. when she found that other man and became engaged with his opposite, he locked her up because she belonged to him. the brother believed he loved his sister, but it was really he subconsciously owned his sister.

she asks her brother in her letters if he really loved her, or just loved the idea of her. because their love is forbidden, and because he could manipulate her psychologically and physically, who she was did not matter. she was just a figure, a doll, or a thing that he could use nightly. she asks him whether he was truly making love to her, or if he was making love to himself... and i mean himself as in his own flesh and blood, something he owned and controlled completely just as a person controls the movement of their body or owns their belongings.

at the end, he visits her to test this hypothesis and kisses her dead body to see if he actually loved who she was or what she was. he has a vicious smile b/c he realizes he doesn't care she's dead, he loved what she was.

BlackKatt13 · 11-29-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanatotempole

he dotted her and she loved him for that. but as time progressed, she realized he is a controlling and emotionally abusive man. because they are siblings they are similar, and because he was older he could tell her what to do. when she found that other man and became engaged with his opposite, he locked her up because she belonged to him. the brother believed he loved his sister, but it was really he subconsciously owned his sister.

she asks her brother in her letters if he really loved her, or just loved the idea of her. because their love is forbidden, and because he could manipulate her psychologically and physically, who she was did not matter. she was just a figure, a doll, or a thing that he could use nightly. she asks him whether he was truly making love to her, or if he was making love to himself... and i mean himself as in his own flesh and blood, something he owned and controlled completely just as a person controls the movement of their body or owns their belongings.

at the end, he visits her to test this hypothesis and kisses her dead body to see if he actually loved who she was or what she was. he has a vicious smile b/c he realizes he doesn't care she's dead, he loved what she was.

I don't think that's right. On page 13 she her eyes were open and she was sitting up, so unless that was meant to be sort of like a flashback or he was hallucinating or something she would have still been alive(so she would have been lying about being dead to him, most likely like she said to end the charade by getting the police involved and telling them where she was, etc.). I took what you said in the second paragraph you wrote a bit differently, but for the most part I agree and think that part about her being an object and all was an interesting way to put it. I really took it as more that he was looking at her not as an object, but as a physical form of his reflection. We're basically saying the same thing though, so...^^ And if you or anyone else who reads this thinks I'm mistaken about the meaning of page 13, please point it out!

BlackKatt13 · 11-29-2008, 08:14 AM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on anything, but I'll try and explaining as best I can. This is my summery.

Basically, the brother had his sister locked in the basement of their house because he was supposedly in love with her and didn't want anyone else to have her. He said it was fine if she hated him, as long as she could be his and his alone. The sister liked him too and said that a part of her felt it would be alright to continue what they were doing.
The biggest problem was that, she asked, was she the one in the dress or the lipstick and being kissed? Was she the one he was seeing when he looked at her? Actually, he was not in love with her but instead himself. He was obsessed with himself. As it said, he was a perfect white flower longing for it's own reflection in the water. The fact that she was his sister meant that they looked alike and were of the same flesh and blood and he would therefore love and admire his own self that he saw in her.
She said in the suicide letter that she had killed herself, but that was only to make the authorities come to the basement. She wanted to ruin his plan to use her as he would and let her die, whether she committed suicide or he killed her, and go off scott-free and act as if a victim. He went down to the basement after reading the note where he was to find that she was actually alive. He kissed her and the police showed up, cued by the note. I'm not sure how she did it as the story didn't go into it, but the note was given not only to him but also to the police.

petitefromage · 01-15-2009, 10:47 PM

I think y'all have explained it enough, but I'm sure that Kaori Yuki intended for readers to read it, then read it again, but for nothing to completely click. I think that's the way it's intended with the rest of the works as well. Only the mangakas of mangas really and truly understand what's going on.

chokklatMOOSE · 01-19-2009, 05:59 PM

I'm pretty sure I get it. Actually, It came pretty easily to me.
Simple: The brother is disgustingly narcissistic and sees himself in her--
So basically, he sees his blood, his face... in her and is praising himself by kissing her
and making love to her. Saying that he, himself is beautiful when he is speaking to her.
It's a bit... hard to explain, but i tried to make it as clear as I could.

10-18-2008, 01:46 PM	#1
yudsan Queen Procrastinator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 49	I didn't understand it... ...can someone explain it to me? I am sorry if I sound like a moron, but it was very confusing __________________

11-21-2008, 12:00 AM	#6
nanatotempole Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	i believe... he dotted her and she loved him for that. but as time progressed, she realized he is a controlling and emotionally abusive man. because they are siblings they are similar, and because he was older he could tell her what to do. when she found that other man and became engaged with his opposite, he locked her up because she belonged to him. the brother believed he loved his sister, but it was really he subconsciously owned his sister. she asks her brother in her letters if he really loved her, or just loved the idea of her. because their love is forbidden, and because he could manipulate her psychologically and physically, who she was did not matter. she was just a figure, a doll, or a thing that he could use nightly. she asks him whether he was truly making love to her, or if he was making love to himself... and i mean himself as in his own flesh and blood, something he owned and controlled completely just as a person controls the movement of their body or owns their belongings. at the end, he visits her to test this hypothesis and kisses her dead body to see if he actually loved who she was or what she was. he has a vicious smile b/c he realizes he doesn't care she's dead, he loved what she was.

01-19-2009, 05:59 PM	#10
chokklatMOOSE We got time to get down. Join Date: May 2008 Location: Closer to the sun and far from the moon (a song. <3 Slightly Stoopid!) Posts: 137	I'm pretty sure I get it. Actually, It came pretty easily to me. Simple: The brother is disgustingly narcissistic and sees himself in her-- So basically, he sees his blood, his face... in her and is praising himself by kissing her and making love to her. Saying that he, himself is beautiful when he is speaking to her. It's a bit... hard to explain, but i tried to make it as clear as I could. __________________

10-20-2008, 05:37 AM	#2
Bru Tokubetsu Jounin! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Posts: 93	Neither do I . . . and believe me, I know how you feel. It's a pretty story, but I kind of don't get it. Like, I kind of get it, but then I don't want to be automatically assuming. Is it because he likes his little sister and wants to keep her forever? Or is it something else? When the little sister or whoever looked up and kissed him, she made me falter there. Or am I reading into this too much? Can someone be direct and clear, and tell me?

10-26-2008, 01:14 PM	#3
mint royale Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2	I don't really think it's that kind of work you should entirely understand. It's just something to stop your time and to think about about your relationship with others and about yourself. Because in this really short story we can see so much: love, thoughts of two people of each other and themselves, their complicated situation, their ways to find happiness, their communication with outside world and so much more. The little sister here, though she really loves her brother, she dicides it's not going to work anymore, because he's too narcissistic. And so it even becomes an equal battle between two really close minds. Of course, it's just my thoughts and I wish I knew myself what exactly the author meant. The fact that I'm myself a hopeless fan of BUCK-TICK doesn't help either xD. But I think thats exactly just a thing what would happen of combining their music with Kaori Yuki's creation. The original song "Die" with lyrics written by Atsushi Sakurai is also difficult to understand, but somehow it has a very familiar feeling: struggling and trying to understand who you are. The song itself could be sad, but it has a light and somehow happy feeling, just like the characters in this oneshot manga, who don't seem to be disappointed or sad in the end, especially the brother, who probably was smiling because he started seeing something more in his sister than he used to, something that also delights him. In addition to his, I seem to find here not only this song, but some other songs as well (especially probably "Narcissus") and there's a lot of implications that this manga can be connected with only this band. Oh, and it was really amusing, because here brother looks like Atsushi Sakurai from later era and the little sister like Atsushi from earlier B-T era, so I guess in a sence it's an AtsushiXAtsushi pairing xDD Sorry about this long babbling that probably didn't help at all xD

11-01-2008, 09:02 PM	#4
kaiakills Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wonderland Posts: 18	i agree with mint royale. it's one of those stories that you really aren't meant to understand completely. Alot of Kaori Yuki's works are like that, and i think that's one of the things that is most appealing about her.

11-02-2008, 04:06 AM	#5
Bru Tokubetsu Jounin! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Posts: 93	Ahh I see . . . Thanks, guys.

11-29-2008, 08:14 AM	#8
BlackKatt13 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I live in Austin,TX in a countryish area Posts: 18	Someone correct me if I'm wrong on anything, but I'll try and explaining as best I can. This is my summery. Basically, the brother had his sister locked in the basement of their house because he was supposedly in love with her and didn't want anyone else to have her. He said it was fine if she hated him, as long as she could be his and his alone. The sister liked him too and said that a part of her felt it would be alright to continue what they were doing. The biggest problem was that, she asked, was she the one in the dress or the lipstick and being kissed? Was she the one he was seeing when he looked at her? Actually, he was not in love with her but instead himself. He was obsessed with himself. As it said, he was a perfect white flower longing for it's own reflection in the water. The fact that she was his sister meant that they looked alike and were of the same flesh and blood and he would therefore love and admire his own self that he saw in her. She said in the suicide letter that she had killed herself, but that was only to make the authorities come to the basement. She wanted to ruin his plan to use her as he would and let her die, whether she committed suicide or he killed her, and go off scott-free and act as if a victim. He went down to the basement after reading the note where he was to find that she was actually alive. He kissed her and the police showed up, cued by the note. I'm not sure how she did it as the story didn't go into it, but the note was given not only to him but also to the police.

01-15-2009, 10:47 PM	#9
petitefromage Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 79	I think y'all have explained it enough, but I'm sure that Kaori Yuki intended for readers to read it, then read it again, but for nothing to completely click. I think that's the way it's intended with the rest of the works as well. Only the mangakas of mangas really and truly understand what's going on.

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