[Williwaw]

I'm interested about how the actions of the main characters change the futur.
How come they realised the content of the video changed ?
If my memories are correct, they found it in their futur and took it to their present.
Let's call the futur they got the video from Futur1.
They also come back from it, so does their memories.
I don't remember exactly what they do, but it change futur, call it Futur2.
How come the video from Futur1 change to the video of Futur2 BUT their memories still are of Futur1 ?

You might think that is just a detail, but to me time travelling and changing the futur are the main spot of this story. *
Make a logical story about it is really hard, that's what makes it VERY interesting.
Plus it would add some spice to the story : they would'nt know if they can change the futur.


*Without it, it's not different from any "heroes-never-lose-and-fight-manichaean-ennemies" action manga.

PS:
I won't create a thread just for it, but it is a common thing to resolve peoples problem for 10 000 yens ? I saw that in Zetman too.

[Altrus]

I just try to think of it as everyone having there own special little timeline.

Here is my rationality,

when in the future they saw the unchanged tape and brought it back then they changed the future, now the tape being from the future is affected by this change and becomes the second recording.

Now the people themselves being from the present aren't effected because they and their memories exist as items in the present.

Because the memory was created by them as a being of the present it belongs to them as an item of the present and isn't changed by actions that effect the future.

mwahahahahahaha...TAKE THAT CHAOS THEORY!!!!!!!!!
((I just backhanded the face of chaos thoery))ahahahahaa.....

I'd sure try to solve peoples problems for 100 dollars each, seems like a fair ammount depending on the problems.

[serinorah]

Ironically almost any form of time travel leads to a paradox, the best way to look at it is instead of time being linear, view it as branching. Every decision creates multiple separate futures that merge as soon as the thing that caused their separation stops matter, therefor they have memories from Future 1 because Future 1 still exists but they have now started down the path to Future 2 and so the dvd shows Future 2. Now I know this doesn't make sense how Future 2 appears on a Future 1 dvd but a dvd from the future automatically defies physics in that now 1 object is in 2 places at the same time and them changing the present (past) to fix the future (present) creates paradoxes by itself and as such causality has been violated so nothing really matters anyway.

[Aydubah]

I have been thinking about how Ageha changed the future. Every time they go to the future, they 'cease to exist' /are completely cut off in/from their original time line. Since he, amamiya and the other guy are back in the present, Oboro and Asaga are left in psyren. If Ageha&co make major changes in the present, they would create a new timeline, one in which Oboro and Asaga didn't exist in.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/15.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/16.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/15.html

If they did that, Asaga&co would live in a paralell world and thus loose the ability to go back to the present time even wth Nemesis Q's ability.

They seem to change future again, just like when Ageha 'rescued' Elemore&kids, with the current plot, meeting Yunas and searching for experiment subject 7.

What do you guys think?

[aigomorla]

Originally Posted by Aydubah

I have been thinking about how Ageha changed the future. Every time they go to the future, they 'cease to exist' /are completely cut off in/from their original time line. Since he, amamiya and the other guy are back in the present, Oboro and Asaga are left in psyren. If Ageha&co make major changes in the present, they would create a new timeline, one in which Oboro and Asaga didn't exist in.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/15.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/16.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/psyren/v11/c085/15.html

If they did that, Asaga&co would live in a paralell world and thus loose the ability to go back to the present time even wth Nemesis Q's ability.

They seem to change future again, just like when Ageha 'rescued' Elemore&kids, with the current plot, meeting Yunas and searching for experiment subject 7.

What do you guys think?

+1... however its a paradox in time.
It goes back to the grandfather clause in time paradox..
If you shot your grandfather when he was young, would you be alive?

The same can be said in such a situation...
If Ageha changes events which lead to a different future... one where no nemisis Q existed... then how could they have gone back in time to begin with?

Which is only answered by your theory of paralell universe.

The thing is.... even if they branched out... nemisis Q would still have her powers (in there universe).
However if she warped them back to a point b4 ageha started fiddling with there time line, i think they would be okey.

Its only if they returned after a pivot where they changed time could they not come back.

Basically if you want to think of it as a branch like the letter Y... the piviot would be where it goes 2 roads. They would need to warp b4 the leg went to 2, otherwise there is no way back

Time is a PITA... and too many things are unexplained to go into further detail.
The perfect example is how they say we can never go into the future, only back, because history wasnt written yet...
However someone from the future could come back, and wait... isnt that the same as someone now going into the future?

:P

[xxevergreedxx]

Everyone, let's try to tone the thinking down. Each of your posts has some credibility, but once I'm done reading the whole thing, I've found a few comments that have most likely confused you all. My own personal idea is that ones that become a Drifter exist, in essence, outside of time. For example, the main paradox involves Ageha and his small group of Drifters. However, I believe Matsuri has shown signs of remembering the various possible futures from the tape.

And we come to an even greater paradox: the tape itself. If we assume it is a tape of that moment in the future, then any future outcome that was changed by Drifters shouldn't exist in the first place. Therefore, they should have no memories of the incident of the first future. However, suppose it is a tape of the event. If we go with the idea Drifters are outside of time, we can also assume any items on them are outside of time as well, the most prominent example being their clothes. Ageha brings the tape along with him on the occasion when he changes the future shown on the tape. The tape changes, but they don't. The most important aspect of the tape: it is from the future. Of course, this is the only possible example for now, but what can be gathered is that the future is always affected by the knowledge of the Drifters.

As for the alternate reality theories, this is also possible. Based on Nemesis Q's creator's words, it is certainly possible. However, she also implies that it has not yet happened. From that small bit of information, I believe that we are only partially correct. Alternate realities can and will happen based on the past, but it seems even if an outcome is possible, it will not happen without direct intervention. Meaning, if Ageha doesn't create a situation where the apocalypse does not occur, then an alternate reality of a world without a Day of Reckoning will not appear. Furthermore, it seems alternate realities reflect major decisions. The creator is slowly moving them toward Amagi Miroku, and so seems to be sending them to the same future every time. Before Ageha's intervention, the Elmore Wood children had died during the Day of Reckoning. However, after, they appear again in the future.

Following this pattern, we can hypothesize that there is an original reality, timeline, and outcome. With every major choice, it is possible an alternate reality may appear. But, as stated before, this apparently requires knowledge of the future and someone who has that knowledge to change it. The most extreme situation of decisions is the coming of the end of the world, or apocalypse. In one reality, the world ends. However, in the other, the world continues to live, and virtually replaces the original reality.

In this situation, the dead world may in fact rise again and start over, creating a new universe. Thus, with multiple of these occurrences, different worlds may exist, from primitive to technology-based, futuristic settings.

The current storyline is Psyren, however, deals with near dates. As such, Ageha and his friends, as well as other Drifters, have extensive knowledge of the near future. It is also obvious there is an area outside of time: where Nemesis Q resides. Assuming this is it's own universe where time is nonexistent, plus the fact Nemesis Q can still return to various timelines, means there is a sort of "place" that has no time. Basically, the whole "timeless area" is literally a theory. In the mangaverse, there is no proof, but it is there.

Of course, the above evidence can be completely decimated if it is proven, in the end, that Drifters age.

[Xydan]

I think we are taking this way too seriously. It's a shounen manga, the logic behind i probably won't be equal to that of a science book on Time and Space. But I do have some views on the future thing. 1. Time, I believe, is just an action. You cant go back in time, as you are just moving, time doesn't truly exist. It's just easier to say things happened during a certain time, but time isn't really tangible. So, in order to actually travel back in time, you would need enough energy to make an imaginary, parallel world, a world which doesn't have a future, only a past. That means people can only travel backwards into a fake world, and forwards into their own time. Or you can take the CLAMp approach and say that if you mess anything up in the past, the future changes to allow both you and the change to exist. Changing your parents, home, etc.

[xxevergreedxx]

Originally Posted by Xydan

I think we are taking this way too seriously. It's a shounen manga, the logic behind i probably won't be equal to that of a science book on Time and Space. But I do have some views on the future thing. 1. Time, I believe, is just an action. You cant go back in time, as you are just moving, time doesn't truly exist. It's just easier to say things happened during a certain time, but time isn't really tangible. So, in order to actually travel back in time, you would need enough energy to make an imaginary, parallel world, a world which doesn't have a future, only a past. That means people can only travel backwards into a fake world, and forwards into their own time. Or you can take the CLAMp approach and say that if you mess anything up in the past, the future changes to allow both you and the change to exist. Changing your parents, home, etc.

Ah, CLAMP...*shakes head*... I find their explanation just a tad too deep. Really, Syaoran's father being his own clone? And in the end, the original (CCS) Sakura and Syaoran were barely involved in the first place? It's almost...disappointing.

Ah well, what can we expect? I'd take Psyren's unexplained time travel to CLAMP's too detailed explanation.

And yes, you're correct. We are taking this too seriously. It's likely it will never be fully explained. Though, I would like for it to be somewhat dived into; it would set up multiple possibilities for a good ending.